HARRINGTON INTERVIEW WITH M. VENIZELOS
In reply to a request from Mustapha Kemal, We have received from Mr. Harold Spender the
General Sir C. Harrington has been authorized following notes of an interview which he had re-
to proceed to a port on the Black Sea to meet cently with M. Venizelos.:—
Mustapha Kemal and to hear and report the pro- Spender.—What in your opinion should the
posals he has to make. General Harrington is not English friends of Greece do for her cause in the
authorized, of course, to make any proposals to present critical position of affairs? Is the attitude
make himself, or to negotiate in any form what- of your friends to be at all affected by the fact
ever, but merely to record Mustafa Kemal Pasha’s that Constantine is in power?
proposals. Venizelos.—Greece is greater than either
General Harrington will be accompanied Constantine or myself.
by Mr. Rattigan, Acting British High Commis- S.—That being accepted, how in your opin-
sioner, who will attend merely in an advisory ion should they best act in England, consistently
capacity. with their duties towards their own country?
The request from Mustafa, however, seems V.—Tell England the truth. I see it stated
to show that the Angora Government are turn- that Greece has been helped all through with
ing to a more sensible course and see the impor- Allied money. Greece has had no money from
tance of reaching an agreement with the Allied the allies since 1918, when she was given a join
Powers. The conversation which General Har- loan of 30,000,000 £ by England, France, and the
rington will hold is not by any means a seper- United States. Since then she has only been cred-
ate British conversation. The French and Italian ited with the value of some war material left over
High Commissioners have expressed their full from the Great War. She has had no financial
approval of the course adopted and will be at help since. In May, 1919, the Greeks were asked
once informed of the results of the interview. by the Supreme Council of the Peace Conference
With regard to the action taken by Genaral to go to Smyrna. But when there, the Greek army
Harrington in Constantinople against the agi- was confined within fixed lines and not allowed
tators and conpirators in Constantinople, some to pursue the attacking Turks more than three
of whom belonged to the Russian Trade Dele- kilometres (under two miles) beyond the fixed
gation, while others did not, the Foreign Office line. That created a very difficult situation for the
holds that no political significance whatever at- Greeks, because the enemy could organize with-
taches to it. It considers that it was a necessary in our gaze and could choose his own point and
police measure, and that General Harrington time of attack at pleasure.
This situation lasted until June, 1920, when a British prisoner. The Bolshevists are behind
the Kemalists defied the Allies and attacked them. If Kemal and the Bolshevists got the
them both in the Constantinople area and Cili- Constantinople they would defy all the Chris-
cia. You will remember that the Kemalist forces tian Powers. The Allies would soon find their
had reached the Asiatic side of the Bosporus, and interest were involved.
that they actually opened fire on Allied warships S.—What do you think of Constantine go-
in the Bosporus. Farther south-east they reached ing to the front?
the Dardanelles and they placed in jeopardy the V.—Well, it shows that the Greek military
freedom of the Straits. At that critical moment staff have a very sanguine view of the success of
the Greeks were asked by the Supreme Council, their operations.
sitting then et Lympne, to undertake an offensive S.—Critics have say that we are being
against the Turks as mandatories of the Allies. In dragged into a “new war”.
addition, a Greek division was placed at the dis- V.—New war? Is it not just the old war-the
posal of the Bristish General at Constantinople, old war still unfinished? Why, Turkey is trying to
which operated at Ismid with a view to keeping tear up the Treaty which ended the old war, and
Kemal in check against any further attempts to that Treaty has never been enforced. There has
capture Constantinople. been no treaty -only an armistice. The Greeks advanced and carried out mili- S.—The trouble ist that Great Britain is now tary operations along with the English, meeting determined to have no wars at all of any kind. them on the Sea of Marmara. Up to that point, Public opinion is dead against any new wars, and under my Premiership, the Greek arms were as a matter of fact we cannot afford them. uniformly victorious, and we carried out what V.—We do not want Great Britain to fight we promised to do. Since then the Greeks have a new war, or fight any war at all. We simply incurred a serious check at the hands of Kemal, do not want her to desert us after asking us to although not a disastrous defeat. Owing to Condo her work. We point out that if we go down stantine’s return and my own fall from power the your defenders will go down, and you will be Allies have declared a neutrality and have withaffected in your most vital interests. For if Kedrawn their financial help. The loan has been
suspended, and no further munitions are being mal reaches Constantinople the freedom of
supplied to the Greeks by the Allies. Meanwhile the sea is involved, and your supremacy in the
the Russian Bolshevist Government are supply- Mediterranean.
ing the Kemalists. The Greek Government has S.—Perhaps that is why our Fleet is at Con-
been obliged to withdraw the division from Is- stantinople.
mid because it was perilously “in the air”. V.—Possibly. You talk of your burdens. But
So now, with Kemal’s victory, Constantino- look at the burdens of Greece! We have been un-
ple is in actual danger and the freedom of the der arms and our Army has been moblized ever
Straits is jeopardized. The Turks have shown since 1912- nine years! The Greeks have kept un-
that they care for none of the Allies, whether der arms in order to carry out work of Europe.
Greeks, Bristish or French. They have hanged Ought Europe, than, to desert us?
THE PRESENT REVIEW ARTICLE AIMS TO Although Greece remained neutral in the
provide a historical evaluation of an interview First World War, it joined the war in 1917 af-
with Greek Prime Minister Venizelos, published ter Britain offered the Greeks possible oppor-
in The Times during the years of the Turkish tunities for territorial gains in the Near East.
War of Independence.1 This short interview is Britain thought that a Greece under its control
highly informative in terms of reflecting the po- would secure colonial roads in the East. As the
litical realities of the period. first step in this policy, Greece invaded Izmir on
The interview was conducted on July 8, 1921, May 15, 1919. The striking point here was that
as part of a report on the authorization of Sir Gen- the Allied Powers declared in the first note that
eral Harrington, Commander-in-Chief of British Izmir would be occupied by the Allied Powers
Forces in Istanbul, to meet with Ataturk2. In the and in the second by Greece on their behalf (Erinterview, Venizelos explains the financial suptan, 2011: 84.). The Greeks first landed soldiers port Greece had received since the beginning at Izmir and then began to advance into Anatoof the war from the United States, Britain, and lia with various excuses. Venizelos, who was in France. It is also clear that the will behind the Paris during the conference period, also asked Greek attack on Turkey came from Britain and for the Allied Powers’ permission to allow Greek other allied forces, described by Venizelos based troops to occupy places as distant as Ayvalik in on concrete events. the North and Aydin in the South. The Allied Looking at the political atmosphere in which
the interview was held, the situation was as fol- Peace Council was reluctant to allow Ayvalik’s
lows: After the First World War, the Paris Peace invasion by the Greeks, and instead limited the
Conference convened on January 18, 1919 to de- Greek expansion to Akincilar (Seljuk). Thus, the
termine the content of treaties to be applied to Greeks, who found support for invasion, began
the defeated states. The Treaty of Sevres, which to advance from Izmir and captured Manisa on
aimed to destroy the Turkish homeland, fell to the May 26, and afterward occupied Aydin on May
share of the Ottoman Empire. When looking at 27, despite it being contrary to the decision of
this conference and subsequent developments, it the Peace Conference. This was followed by the
seems that Greece was the main actor in the nego- invasion of Turgutlu and Ayvalik on 29 May
tiations on the sharing of Turkish territory. (Turan, 1998: 223).
1 This document was brought to our attention by Prof. Emin Gürses, a member of the BRIQ Advisory Board. We express our gratitude
for thank Prof. Gürses’ contribution.
2 In The Times, it is alleged that the subject of meeting with Harrington was brought to the agenda upon Atatürk’s application.
However, Atatürk explains in his work entitled The Speech (Nutuk) that a conscious distortion was made on this issue and that it was Harrington who wanted to talk to him. Atatürk emphasizes this situation in the letter he sent in response to the news that Harrington sent him (Nutuk, 1983Nutuk (1983). The source article does not provide a separate full bibliographic entry for this citation.).
In Western Anatolia, important success- of the overlap of their “self ” interests and ob-
es were achieved with the first and second İn- jectives. Greece is the most typical example of
önü victories on behalf of Turkey, which were a country that fights directly under the control
critical to the resistance of the National Forces of an imperialist state in Turkey’s political his-
Movement. The movement started under the tory. As emphasized in this interview, Venizelos
leadership of the Reddi İlhak Society and then complains about not getting the support Greece
transitioned to the regular army. As a result of wanted at the time when the war was victorious
attacks by the Greeks with almost all their forces, on the side of the Turks.
the Turkish forces retreated, but, finally, the Bat- The thesis that the war of independence is a
tle of Sakarya and the Great Offensive ended the “Turkish-Greek war or a war against minorities”
Greek occupation. is expressed by some anti-Republican sections
Eleftherios Venizelos was the Prime Minis- regularly. The interview with Prime Minister
ter of Greece during the Turkish War of Inde- Venizelos and numerous other objective sources
pendence and one of the architects of Greece’s proves how unfounded this thesis is. The main
Megali Idea. For this purpose, he took an active subject here is Greece. As stated in this inter-
role in the plans of Western states, especially view, the Greek state was in the role of an actor
under the leadership of Britain against Turkey. who realized the political aspirations of the West
Venizelos was not just any leader of Greek poli- both in the years of the War of Independence
tics. He was one of the leaders of the Greek, Ser- and previous periods.
bian, and Bulgarian alliance policy against the The rebellions that started with the nation-
Ottoman Empire in the Balkans, along with the alist movements affecting the whole world in an
military administration of Greece since 1910. ideological context after the French Revolution
One of the most important accomplishments not only led to the establishment of micro-scale
of this alliance was the accession of Crete to nation-states in the Balkans in the 19th and early
Greece. As a result of King Constantine’s abdica- 20th centuries but also made these states act di-
tion during the first World War, Venizelos came rectly as the military and political instruments
into power with the support of the British and of Western imperialism in further political pro-
became a practitioner of British-led aggressive cesses. In this respect, the Greeks had a dominant
policies against Turkey. role in the weakening of the state and land losses
in the Balkans from the Greek Revolt that started
Greece as an Eternal “Proxy” State in 1821 and the Balkan War in 1912-1913, within
The concept of a “proxy war” has entered our the borders of the Ottoman state. On October 5,
political literature as a result of political devel- 1821, 12,000 people were killed in the massacres
opments and wars in the Middle East, Balkans, in the city of Tripolitsa from Turks, Albanians,
and the Caucasus in the 21st century. Under the Jews, and other nationalities in the uprising that
US-Israel alliance, in particular, we see that var- started in the Peloponnese. Until the summer of
ious Sharia Salafist organizations have targeted 1822, the deaths, as a result of the Greek uprising,
Syria, Iraq, and Iran in our geography and have reached 50,000. (Sonyel, 2014: 208-209).
achieved varying results. However, “proxy war” During the foundation of Greece, whose ex-
is not a new phenomenon. History shows that istence dates back to this period, the main impe-
states can also function as “proxies” as a result rialist states of the period, especially Britain, had
inititally objected to its statehood, especially in from time to time. As regards these theses, it
terms of gaining political influence in the Balkans is especially necessary to mention the name
and further breaking the existing power of the Ot- of Idris Küçükömer (for further information:
toman State. After the Balkan Wars, however, the Küçükömer, 1984).
dimension of political and military relations with These misguided statements were support-
the Greeks was strengthened with the acquisition ed by theses such as that the Turkish Revolution
of power by the Greek state. After the Armistice was not a revolution and that Mustafa Kemal
of Mondros signed by the Ottoman Empire af- came to power with the support of the British.
ter the First World War, Greece appears to have The proponents of these theses, intentionally or
taken part in British plans, especially in line with unintentionally, blur history by overshadowing
its own “Megali Idea” goal, along with the British, historical facts through misguided interpreta-
French, and Italian invasions. tions. However, a hundred years can be seen as
For example, during this period, some devel- recent in the science of history, and proving a
opments regarding the role of the British gained thesis about such a period is relatively simpler.
importance after the Battle of Sakarya, one of the Considering that those who put forward these
most critical stages of the War of Independence. theses are not even historians by profession, it
After the Kars and Ankara treaties, contradict- should not be overlooked how desperate their
ing those who think that the Turks cannot resist attempts are. In this sense, this short interview
a major power like Britain, Atatürk argued, “In- with Prime Minister Venizelos proves the value
dia, Egypt and, other countries clearly practice an of the work of Turkey’s valuable historians such
imperialist policy of oppression, and that Britain as Salahi Sonyel, Erol Ulubelen, and Bilal Şimşir
cannot trust Turkey, nor will it give up the goal based on British archival sources.
of destroying this country.”(From British archival
documents, Sonyel, 2003: 2015). References
Atatürk, M. K. (1983). Nutuk (Cilt 1) (Ed. Zeynep Korkmaz). Ankara: Atatürk’ün Doğumunun 100.
The Constanly Resurfacing Thesis that Yılını Kutlama Koordinasyonu Kurulu.
the War of Independence Is A “Turkish- Ertan, T. F. (Ed.). (2011). Başlangıcından günümüze
Greek War” Türkiye Cumhuriyeti tarihi. Ankara: Siyasal Kitabevi.
Küçükömer, İ. (1984). Batılılaşma, düzenin
Since the beginning of Turkey’s intensely rich yabancılaşması. İstanbul: Bağlam Yayınları, 1984.
intellectual life in the 1960s, discussions about Sonyel, S. (2003). Türk Kurtuluş Savaşı ve dış politika 2.
Ankara: Türk Tarih Kurumu Yayınları. the nature of the national liberation struggle Sonyel, S. (2014).Osmanlı Devleti’nin yıkılmasında
continue. Baseless statements that the war of in- azınlıkların rolü. Ankara: Türk Tarih Kurumu
dependence was a Turkish-Greek war, that the Yayınları.
Turan, Ş. (1998). Türk devrim tarihi 2. Kitap: Ulusal
Turks never fought against the British, that the direnişten Türkiye Cumhuriyeti’ne. Ankara: Bilgi
battles of Inonu never happened were expressed Yayınları.
